tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post4028093724688328482..comments2023-12-15T21:49:46.651+01:00Comments on Pluralist Speaks: Fierce Criticism: My ResponsePluralist (Adrian Worsfold)http://www.blogger.com/profile/01922153724523820866noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-75232660712623326432011-09-29T17:28:23.307+02:002011-09-29T17:28:23.307+02:00Be nice to see more of Andrews approach in the LCa...Be nice to see more of Andrews approach in the LCaC than Marks. Mark sounded like he was having a bit of a hissy fit and 30 mins later pops up again with a more "impressive" title. I find this sad. Self serving and introspective awarding of titles, degrees, beer tokens etc do not impress anyone. <br /><br />However I do think that the LCAC and other lib caths have a valid mission and they need to focus on that rather than working through some silly titles<br /><br />mikeb DkA<br />(drinker of kirstall ales)MikeBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08606310952818009156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-34515435089571817992011-09-28T16:17:46.875+02:002011-09-28T16:17:46.875+02:00Many full time paid clergy of main stream churches...Many full time paid clergy of main stream churches often ridicule or be little the role of the Indie Movement within Christendom. With church attendances the lowest at any time in history and churches across the land are closing their doors at an alarming rate for good and are often being turned into offices homes showrooms or just allowed to fall down etc. Many of these exact same people see the writing on the wall and fear that their churches and their faith will become a mirror image of the Independent movement. Unless this trend is reversed and soon the major churches role in our society will be further reduced and eventually become irrelevant and in some instances we will see whole denominations disappear altogether. We may see an even smaller Christian church in the future than even anyone can imagine. The Church of Scotland for example will according to some reports be gone in thirty years if they continue to fail to attract the nation’s youth. So what is then the answer? I believe as a faith we have to be seen as less judgemental and old fashioned avoid infighting between churches and seem less stuffy less Dot Cotton and a bit more modern old but new I mean let’s not fling the baby out with the bath water. We need to better market the wider Christian church and community. The church is to coin an advertisers phrase We have a great product with very poor marketing. Rt.Revd Andrew HallAndrew Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07401922821765096436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-19367028321664666912011-09-28T02:13:08.914+02:002011-09-28T02:13:08.914+02:00Thanks Andrew Hall.Thanks Andrew Hall.Pluralist (Adrian Worsfold)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01922153724523820866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-53793065452515005702011-09-28T01:16:47.978+02:002011-09-28T01:16:47.978+02:00The L.C.A.C is a young church and as such operates...The L.C.A.C is a young church and as such operates its own Seminary to allow worthy men and woman to make there calling become a reality free of student debt etc. Candidates for holy orders are free to use any of the mainstream academic institutions across the UK or abroad if they wish to do so. The LCAC has many at home churches were people meet for worship this is not at all an uncommon practice many new churches have started out this way indeed most of the early Christians met for worship this way. It is a fair to say that a great many Liberal and Old Catholic Churches never grow beyond their front rooms or temp chapels this is a trend the LCAC hopes to reverse. The LCAC has had its teething problems but several of the clergy who left LCAC have now returned and the church is now I believe heading in the right direction. PAX Rt Revd Andrew HallAndrew Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07401922821765096436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-8349137881976124112011-09-27T18:57:12.753+02:002011-09-27T18:57:12.753+02:00Yes the latest one I encountered (and criticised, ...Yes the latest one I encountered (and criticised, for Unitarians) was the contextual theology foundation/ MA degrees at the University of Chester.Pluralist (Adrian Worsfold)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01922153724523820866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-1549138595396524322011-09-27T16:06:27.691+02:002011-09-27T16:06:27.691+02:00I don't really understand it. If for example, ...I don't really understand it. If for example, they want to do serious academic training and award degrees through their seminary program, then why not do what a great many of other denominations do. Devise in conjunction with an established internationally recognised university a diploma/degree or post grad program that is externally validated. Wales, London, Chester, York, Sheffield, Leeds, Open etc already do this. Not to do so makes the academic qualification non transferable and pretty useless im afraid to say.Dr Jonesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-2040638974904624912011-09-27T14:30:24.470+02:002011-09-27T14:30:24.470+02:00The answer, Dr. Jones, is that they have their own...The answer, Dr. Jones, is that they have their own seminary that issues their degrees and also does their training.<br /><br />All mine from University of Hull: PGCE, MA, Ph.D, BA (Hons.) in reverse order.Pluralist (Adrian Worsfold)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01922153724523820866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-71561258399289348852011-09-27T09:04:10.694+02:002011-09-27T09:04:10.694+02:00BA BD - University of Wales, MTh Phd - Oxford, DD ...BA BD - University of Wales, MTh Phd - Oxford, DD - WalesDr Jonesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-22640454493096184252011-09-26T22:23:31.458+02:002011-09-26T22:23:31.458+02:00Dr B Jones BA BD MTh PhD DD (???) it would be inte...Dr B Jones BA BD MTh PhD DD (???) it would be interesting to see Who accredited your degrees?<br /><br />Titles are given in the L.C.A.C. when it is warranted to do so, depending on the training and the work of each member.The Very Revd Monsignor Mark Parishttp://www.benedictus-fellowship.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-48341123105668848712011-09-26T22:16:43.975+02:002011-09-26T22:16:43.975+02:00Adrian, I have no interest in proving to you that ...Adrian, I have no interest in proving to you that Swindon has a congregation the ""prove is in the pudding"" Oh and yes you do see correctly I do hold the title Monsignor, "" Its Called Work and progression""The Very Revd Monsignor Mark Parishttp://www.benedictus-fellowship.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-47101443034006404352011-09-26T22:07:32.172+02:002011-09-26T22:07:32.172+02:00I notice I mixed my yous and hes. The speaker woul...I notice I mixed my yous and hes. The speaker would have been very cross with me for using 'you'. It is disrespectful.Pluralist (Adrian Worsfold)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01922153724523820866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-81374226069805031312011-09-26T22:05:42.102+02:002011-09-26T22:05:42.102+02:00Oh and as for comparing Mhoira and the Anglican Ar...Oh and as for comparing Mhoira and the Anglican Archbishops'retirement age, it is a spot of comparative humour in the context of an Archbishop expected to retire in roughly a year, well before his demanded retirement age of 70. It is no 'attack' at all. It is something that Mhoira herself has faced in terms of age discrimination contrasted with capability. In at least part for reasons of discrimination she became ordained otherwise.Pluralist (Adrian Worsfold)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01922153724523820866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-55803425319128047822011-09-26T22:01:12.599+02:002011-09-26T22:01:12.599+02:00I don't understand the problem of referring to...I don't understand the problem of referring to someone as he or she. It happens in the House of Commons all the time, because the comments go through the speaker. It is a means of respect and neutrality. It happens on a blog because messages are addressed to a reader.<br /><br />Well, LCAC reordained when Kersey, Lindley, Bate etc. acquired various different lines of episcopacy.<br /><br />I see that Mark Paris is now called Monsignor. That's an upgrade of a title. I see you have added another member of clergy in your parish team. I looked at the photographs of your recent event. I was trying to see the laity in this and was finding it difficult beyond what seemed to be some visitors.<br /><br />Liberal Catholic patterns tend to be that the laity comes along through rites of passage and the like, which their clergy service, but that is not how other churches understand their laity. They work on establishing (or failing to establish) congregations of lay people. Perhaps Mark Paris - he - would inform us of his congregation.<br /><br />I made a distinction between selecting towards ministry and training towards ministry, neither of which is exclusive, but a bishop as bishop can decide to ordain (though there may be training) whereas Unitarian ministry is only by training and then recognition. UMI is more like LCAC than the GA Unitarians in this respect.Pluralist (Adrian Worsfold)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01922153724523820866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-72412009757354774192011-09-26T19:53:36.955+02:002011-09-26T19:53:36.955+02:00Its all quite entertaining watching this from the ...Its all quite entertaining watching this from the outside, as far as I can see it the people in the lcac keep giving themselves titles and academic qualifications. Now this is entirely up to them. I'd just be interested in what Dr Lauer-Patterson's Phd thesis is in and where has it be published? Who was it accredited by as well would be interesting.Dr B Jones BA BD MTh PhD DDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-11855733565870731022011-09-26T19:38:17.401+02:002011-09-26T19:38:17.401+02:00Adrian,
I have looked at this post again and agai...Adrian,<br /><br />I have looked at this post again and again, and I must say it has to be one of the worst posts you have placed on here, I am in two minds of visiting this blog again!<br /><br />1- you do not post e-mails onto a public form for the world to read<br />2- you do not disrespect people by addressing them as HE/SHE<br /><br />I find this as a direct attack on the L.C.A.C.<br /><br />You Say:<br /><br />“””” I made no such assertion about Mhoira. I said that UMI selects its ministers similar to LCAC. Here is the point: Anglicans and Roman Catholics choose to train ministers, but each has bishops who can, in theory, simply select who they want and make them ordained through a sacramental act. LCAC and other Liberal Catholics also ordain, indeed not only do some ordain but they reordain the ordained often several times. “”””<br /><br /><br />I have NEVER seen or read about any of the Bishops in the L.C.A.C re-ordain anyone! <br /><br />Incardination -YES! Re-ordaining NO!<br /><br /><br />You Say:<br />“” The problem is for Mhoira (and she is past the age of retirement even of Archbishops of Canterbury) “” - Is this another direct attack?<br /><br /><br /><br />Also Adrain, how dare you plaster across the internet that the L.C.A.C ordains when someone asks for it. Let me ask you a Question how do you know? Your claims to this is UNTRUE and so misleading and I would like you to correct that statement, if you do not know the true facts then keep your views to yourself. <br /><br />This is not the first time I have seen you mention Swindon, as for your information we do have a congregation here and it is a lot larger than the ministry team! Maybe you would like to visit one day then write the facts regarding this?<br /><br />I.H.S<br /><br />The Very Revd Monsignor Mark Paris RSStS, FMC Episcopal Vicar for the Diocese of Dumnonia & Wessex. Priest In-Charge L.C.A.C. SwindonThe Very Revd Monsignor Mark Parishttp://www.benedictus-fellowship.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-30885963423735247772011-09-26T19:10:06.816+02:002011-09-26T19:10:06.816+02:00Adrian, I find the way you address Rt Rev Dr Mhoir...Adrian, I find the way you address Rt Rev Dr Mhoira Lauer-Patterson as ""she"" so disrespectfulVery Revd Mark Parishttp://www.benedictus-fellowship.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-42183389674387781582011-09-25T04:14:06.184+02:002011-09-25T04:14:06.184+02:00Looking at this email again, I'm not taking cr...Looking at this email again, I'm not taking criticism about this. It was insulting and written in language intended to put down. The issues were in the public realm and that's where they should be tackled.Pluralist (Adrian Worsfold)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01922153724523820866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-89916302478626521012011-09-25T01:53:17.390+02:002011-09-25T01:53:17.390+02:00I thought about this for a while. The whole email ...I thought about this for a while. The whole email was based on the blog entry, and I took the view it was public material. Not all of it is on display - some of it is because it is the best way to tackle the misconceptions.<br /><br />Had it been clear it was private, I would have replied directly and personally, and done so with a concentration on the language used against me and the issues would not have been discussed.<br /><br />Sometimes people hide behind privacy in order to vent their anger and attack someone. I wasn't having this, and so I went public with the issues. I prefer not to engage in personal type communications.<br /><br />Anyway, in future I assume her emails are private but then it is a different way of handling such correspondence.Pluralist (Adrian Worsfold)https://www.blogger.com/profile/01922153724523820866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-64818007751535767782011-09-24T23:28:15.421+02:002011-09-24T23:28:15.421+02:00Let's be clear, you have posted an email witho...Let's be clear, you have posted an email without permission of the sender. Is that not a breach of trust? Or does the argument matter more?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com