tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post6904813269877378786..comments2023-12-15T21:49:46.651+01:00Comments on Pluralist Speaks: Death to Life and Religious MythPluralist (Adrian Worsfold)http://www.blogger.com/profile/01922153724523820866noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-65614150547295685942011-12-11T21:32:15.337+01:002011-12-11T21:32:15.337+01:00There are no requirements for a ceremony and vows ...There are no requirements for a ceremony and vows re CP? So one could conceivably enter into a CP via post, for example? Interesting. I understand that in some countries this is the case for heterosexual marriage. The ceremony, in such cases, would presumably be an optional cultural extra. In the UK, I imagine that most gay couples enter into their CP via a ceremony where they make public vows to one another.<br /><br />It seems to me that the gay marriage struggle is more about equality than it is about marriage as such. Legal equality is the goal, even though marriage isn't always defined as a legally-binding secular contract; many couples see themselves as 'married in all but name', and the concept of 'common law marriage' has been validated in various cultures at various times. In some countries, religious and civil marriage ceremonies and legalities are kept entirely separate, and there is no expectation that religious people and politicians need to agree on what marriage means. Sometimes marriage is polygamous, etc. So different things are prohibited or allowed at different times. <br /><br />On this particular issue, some Christians are concerned about the future legal implications for their churches. Their lawyers can advise them on that. I'm a Christian myself, but since this whole business seems to be more legal than theological I can't really work myself up into a theological tizzy about it. From a cultural and legal point of view, I certainly accept that there will be evolving views of marriage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-4568267116275462282011-12-11T17:47:47.311+01:002011-12-11T17:47:47.311+01:00Thank you for your reply - although I'm sorry ...Thank you for your reply - although I'm sorry to have diverted this thread away from its original theme!<br /><br />The legal effects of a Civil Marriage and a Civil Partnership are, for all practical purposes, the same. What I do dislike, however, is having to use a different drinking fountain to heterosexual people even though the drinking fountain I'm allowed to use is almost the same.<br /><br />There is a requirement for a ceremony and vows for a CM but no such requirements for a CP - it is merely a written contract.<br /><br />Also, if I entered a CP I would not be 'married' to my partner - though many people use the term colloquially.<br /><br />To summarise, I would just like to be treated equally!<br /><br />Laurence C.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-19761020066704934942011-12-11T15:50:27.265+01:002011-12-11T15:50:27.265+01:00How is it different?
You know more about this t...How is it different? <br /><br />You know more about this than I do. I know about the differences in terminology, and the lack of a religious element in civil weddings/partnerships. But I can't see what else is involved. The media has focused on the 'gay weddings in church' angle, but you seem to be implying that there are other more important differences to be fought for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-10071916519308222372011-12-11T15:34:53.452+01:002011-12-11T15:34:53.452+01:00"Nevertheless, surely it's currently poss..."Nevertheless, surely it's currently possible for gay couples to marry."<br /><br />No it isn't. And neither of us wants the right to a Christian marriage. We want the right to a civil marriage that is not a "different but equal" civil partnership for gays only. <br /><br />Laurence C.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-66528396390929326072011-12-11T13:28:26.570+01:002011-12-11T13:28:26.570+01:00There seems to be a contradiction between saying t...There seems to be a contradiction between saying that you don't criticise your partner's faith yet also saying that you're 'appalled by pretty much everything' you've found out about Christianity! I'm not sure how you can square that.<br /><br />The only difference between civil partnerships and marriage, so I understand, is that the former must be non-religious in content. But if you're appalled by Christianity, it's hard to understand why you're so keen for the 'right' to have a Christian marriage.<br /><br />Nevertheless, surely it's currently possible for gay couples to marry. The only problem is that a couple can't have both a religious and legally-binding ceremony combined into a single event. I'm sure that the Unitarians, Quakers and other faith groups would conduct religious wedding ceremonies for gay couples - it's only the legal aspect that would have to occur elsewhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-59422921391449336532011-12-11T01:11:36.581+01:002011-12-11T01:11:36.581+01:00You are doubtless aware that it is not possible fo...You are doubtless aware that it is not possible for two people of the same gender to marry in the UK. We want a civil marriage and can't have one until the law changes. The Bishops in the House of Lords will doubtless do their best to hamper and delay the relevent legislation. Neither of us could care less what the Diocesan Bishop thinks and no he won't be able to stop us when it becomes legal for us to marry. Also, who says I criticise my partner's faith? - we have different views and I respect greatly the work he does as a hospital chaplain. He no longer works for the CofE as he could not get a job after he came out as gay.<br /><br />Laurence C.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-67748706980575132802011-12-10T23:50:45.463+01:002011-12-10T23:50:45.463+01:00Ah, so it's a question more for Adrian than yo...Ah, so it's a question more for Adrian than you, then.<br /><br />This may be off-topic, but I must say, I wouldn't want to be in your partner's shoes - from one side facing criticism over his homosexuality, and from the other, facing criticism over his faith!<br /><br />As for bishops, they can't stop you getting married, can they? You can't marry in their churches, but that's another matter.<br /><br />If all they offer is 'woo-woo', maybe it's not all that important that you have the CofE's blessing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-87339659719527467342011-12-10T20:07:56.776+01:002011-12-10T20:07:56.776+01:00Your "Fair enough" is fair enough!
I&#...Your "Fair enough" is fair enough! <br /><br />I'm a life long atheist who thinks theology is a waste of time - I devote only an occasional few minutes reading blogs such as this, so don't devote my life to it. I had no interest in any of it until 3 years ago when I became the partner of a gay man who was a clergyman in the CofE and I felt I should find out something about what he was involved in.<br /> <br />Since then I've have been appalled by pretty much everything I have found out about the church and Christianity and am delighted I have nothing to do with it - other than being a citizen of a country that has umpteen bishops sitting in the legislature as of right and who are trying their best to prevent me from marrying my partner.<br /><br />Laurence CAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-50657182067903783652011-12-10T17:34:56.924+01:002011-12-10T17:34:56.924+01:00Fair enough, but then, one might ask, what's t...Fair enough, but then, one might ask, what's the point of all this chit-chat about theology if the whole thing is 'woo-woo'? Why devote your life to analysing what you believe to be nonsense? Who cares?<br /><br />I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just wondering if, beyond being a minority academic interest, attempts to squeeze Shiva (for example) into other, less mythical boxes do anyone any good in the real world? Is there much of a market for this sort of thing? It's well hidden, if so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5449677811690616608.post-45465353359001764312011-12-09T16:38:37.695+01:002011-12-09T16:38:37.695+01:00It's wonderful to read such commonsense on her...It's wonderful to read such commonsense on here. I agree - when you're dead, you're dead - no amount of theological woo-woo, resurrection myth or wishful thinking can change that. Let's just live in the here and now and love each other as best we can.<br /><br />Laurence C.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com