Methodists Speak to Anglicans

GENERAL SYNOD, FEBRUARY 11th 2010

David:

Let me first thank Archbishop Rowan Tree for his I assume generous words of introduction and welcome. And let me also thank both Archbishops for their invitation for us as a couple, myself David and Richard, to come and to address the General Synod today.

Perhaps many of you have not heard of the Methodist Church, so we thought we would tell you something about it.

I'm David and he is Richard. Hello Richard.

Richard:

Hello David.

David:

Richard, so many thank yous. The British Methodist Church has churches and circuits in England, Scotland, Wales, Shetland, the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands, Gibraltar and Malta. Because of this we thought that, like ECUSA having churches outside the United States that we might change our name to The Methodist Church, but unfortunately there are other Methodist Churches in the world, just as there are other Episcopalian Churches in the world.

In fact, some of our Methodist Churches in the world have bishops. But we don't. In fact we are missing ours, because as Methodists we don't really believe in two orders or three orders of ministry. That's why, if we merged with you, we would be able to accept bishops. However, it is very complicated because our founder, who was one of your people, was a very naughty boy, and as a priest consecrated a bishop, instead of finding someone else to do it, like The Epicopalian Church in America did. Our founder should have gone to Scotland, on his horse.

So instead of bishops we have a vice-President and a President which we do by a rigged election, and we elect them together so that the President is a presbyter and the Vice-President is a layperson or a deacon and as the person designated by the previous Conference you’re the only candidate – so you’ve got a pretty good chance you’ll get elected and it’s pretty devastating not to get in, to hold office for a year together, holding hands until you join the past Presidents and Vice Presidents.

So I can tell a joke now. As one of my predecessors described it, 'You spend a year being "It", a year being "Ex-it" and then you become "Past-it".’ In fact, before you get selected, on someone's computer you are a "Post-it", like a little yellow thing.

Now the danger is that we are running out of people to be "It", because we are in severe decline, although we have two for next year and they are both ladies. Some of you might not have heard of ladies in charge, one a minister and one a deacon.

We keep our old jobs at the same time, because a year goes past quickly, but as you know Methodist ministers hardly clear out the removal van in any one place before they have to fill another one up and move. And we are very poor, so our houses and expenses are provided for us. And as we go further into steep decline, many of our jobs and ministries are becoming part time so that we can spend some days of our week sitting in the street with a tin and a dog. In fact I have brought my tin today for you to put in your ten pences, and perhaps we will have a drink of tea each before we leave. Richard, though, makes sure I don't go home without putting something into my mouth.

Things are in such decline that we may move to a three year term - Richard and I would love that - and if we did what would that mean in terms of how we express the collaboration between presbyters, deacons and lay people in our Church. Love you Richard.

Richard:

Thank you Reverend David. Love you David.

So the Vice-President of the Methodist Conference is the highest office within the Methodist Church in Britain that can be held by a lay person, and no I won't be President next year. So be partly reassured that a Presbyter is in charge, even though you might prefer a bishop. No I keep my job and a Vice-President is not full time. I am a children's programme presenter, although I could be a GP or a dustman or even unemployed, though they have funny rules about volunteering.

Because I am part time I am saying less than David. So David, it is back to you. Love you David.

David:

Thank you ever so much Richard. Love you Richard too.

So where are our missing bishops? Well they are invisible, like the choir immemorial. They are in the Methodist Conference. The Methodist Conference keeps us doctrinally pure and is like a big committee that can respond to the spirit, but have you ever known a committee that responds to the spirit? It's not very personal, is it! The President and Vice-President are the people who preside at the Conference, so when it gets personal it gets lay and Presbyterish. Now we do similarly at the district, and sometimes we think that the Chair of the District is a bishop, and sometimes that idea goes to his or her head.

In between authority lies with the Methodist Council and then... Richard.

Richard:

Yes David?

David:

I think that the boys and girls here are beginning to fall asleep.

Richard:

I think we are boring them, David. Many of them might know this already. Love you David.

David:

Humm. Love you Richard. Better press on. So we are like ambassadors, really, and travel a lot and share in others' worship, and this is how we know we are in steep decline because, when they do a good turnout for us, the numbers ae declining, and we keep seeing the same people crossing over circuit boundaries.

I'm going to Pately Bridge soon. That will be nice. That will be with other churches. And Richard asked for time off presenting children's programmes because we are going abroad too, to see other Methodist Churches. Love you Richard.

Richard:

Love you David. I've been to lots of early historical places, boys and girls. Did you know that after the Methodists left the Church of England, the Methodists divided up over and over and over again? We had to get them all back again, like into a sheep pen, in 1932. But now there aren't many sheep left, and we think we can come into your pen.

But if we did, what would happen to the Vice-President, like me? Primitive Methodists, called that because they were a bit simple, used to have a big place for little lay people. And then what about our women too, I mean you Church of England people really have to have women as leaders first before we can play in your pen.

Nowadays when our ministers cost so much, and have to go on the streets shaking a tin, lay people are taking a bigger role. But there are getting older and older, and we notice that there are at least some younger ones with you. So perhaps we can join you, but lay people do need to do more than make tea and do the flowers. David is hoping for a nice cup of tea today and I will look after him: make sure he takes something in today.

Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians makes it clear, we have different gifts, we can offer different services, but the body needs to be valued and filled up with a little bit of help from another.

I went to a major church in the north of Scotland the other week. They had 12 members and their church was literally falling down around them. They did some collecting and found some money, and now they have a better building, although some are elderly and have died. Then I went to a big church in Leeds that joined one of yours before it became a lot smaller. David, I will make sure you are loved and valued.

David:

What would I do without Richard? He looks after me! Well, Richard has come with me today because we now want to think about how our big Churches, our denominations could join as one.

Richard:

That's right David. Love you.

David:

Love you Richard. Others could tell you far better than I where this committee or that has done this or what but then we are a bit short on travel expenses. I do know that they think this joining together is a good idea. And thank you for inviting us. Rowan.

Rowan:

Yes?

David:

Would you like to come to our conference next year?

Rowan:

Yes, I would. Thank you. Love you David?

David:

No Rowan, you don't really love me. Thank you Rowan. Do you have someone who could come with you?

Rowan:

Do you mean a bishop or my wife?

David:

We'll leave that to you, Rowan. And we do lots of Fresh Expressions together, don't we, because we have no idea what will bring in the punters anymore, as our congregations become ever more elderly.

Well we know that there are reservations about us coming together. But when I go around, and see the same faces making up a crowd, I have to tell them that the game is up. By 2050 the last person can switch off the light.

Forty years after 1932 we still had a number of congregations and quite a few ministers and could have completed our rounding up of the sheep by coming back. We could have joined you then, but you had nasty horrible Anglo-Catholics who wouldn't let us join. Now I understand they are going to be leaving to join the Pope, so perhaps if you lose these ministers and maybe a handful of lay people, you might like our ministers back and the handful of our lay people.

Richard:

Can I hear hissing in that corner? The boys and girls must be more awake than we thought. It would be nice to come together. Love you David.

David:

Love you Richard.

Richard:

We can and do work together now, on all sorts of topics and projects. The President last year even lent Archbishop Rowan a pair of blue gloves so that he was appropriately dressed for doing the gardening at his Palace. What better sign of that covenant could there be? And David and I went on holiday to Israel/ Palestine, as we call it now. And we were ecumenical there too, in all the places that we visited and projects that we saw. Good too, because the night clubs were rubbish. Now Rowan is going to visit Israel...

Rowan:

Love you... Richard.

Richard:

Now then Rowan! You are a sweetie! So we have a hat for you to wear this time, and perhaps you can decide whether you want mine or David's.

Well it is said that there are 70 million Christians world-wide who claim a Methodist heritage. Well they are not here! So we are prepared to make a big offer. Love you David.

David:

Love you Richard. Richard and I think that we want to come into bed with all of you. No, not literally, not with you folks. But there are all sorts of questions about, so to speak, being in that ecumenical hotel room and shoving two single beds together. For example, how does a committee bishop relate to a personal bishop? And what about the other single beds in the hotel room, or indeed the ensuite bathroom?

But we are proposing that there will be a worldwide Methodism, and nothing in Britain! We can go out of business, before 2050! The beautifully named MAPUM (Methodist Anglican Panel for Unity in Mission) can become MUPPET (Methodist Undertaken Particular Project End Time) when we give up early. In John 17.21, Christ prays for the unity of his followers not because it’s financially a better use of scarce resources, but then that's not a bad idea. We know Rowan loves a Covenant - no Rowan, you do not love me - and many of you may have shared in our annual Covenant Service, with these powerful words, thank you ever so Richard:

Richard:

Love you David. I am no longer my own but yours. Put me to what you will, rank me with whom you will; put me to doing, put me to suffering; let me be employed for you, or laid aside for you, exalted for you or brought low for you; let me be full, let me be empty, let me have all things, let me have nothing; I freely and wholeheartedly yield all things to your pleasure and disposal. Love you David.

David:

Love you Richard, and such lovely words for the Civil Partnership. Humm. Methodists approach the Covenant with the Church of England in the spirituality of that Covenant prayer. So when we say to God “let me have all things let me have nothing”, we are prepared to go out of existence. Can we manage it before 2050?

Thank you so much for listening. Love you Richard.

Richard:

Love you David. It's lovely to be here. The hotel room is very nice too; I hope you are all enjoying yours.